Rene Girard on the radar screen
I wanted to give a brief introduction to Rene Girard's thought, but realize it would be inadequate. Why not link to good information? A good introduction to his thought is an article he published in First Things called "Are the Gospels Mythical?" and a good discussion of the current state of his thought in the academic world is at Girard Among the Girardians by J. Bottum.
Date:Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:24:34 -0800 (PST)
From:"erico"
Subject:is the mac working?
To: tombot
Hi Tom,
Just wanted to check with you to see that the mac is
working as expected. Also, finished reading Rene Girard's reader. The last two chapters dealt with Freud and Nietzsche. You can imagine my interest. Thought you would be interested, too.
Eric
Date:Tue, 4 Feb 2003 09:24:34 -0800 (PST)
From:"erico"
Subject:is the mac working?
To: tombot
Hi Tom,
Just wanted to check with you to see that the mac is
working as expected. Also, finished reading Rene Girard's reader. The last two chapters dealt with Freud and Nietzsche. You can imagine my interest. Thought you would be interested, too.
Eric
posted by erico at 3:44 PM
4 Comments:
From: "Tombot"
To: erico
Subject: Re: is the mac working?
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 10:44:33 -0500
Eric:
I ordered some Girard books from our inter-library loan service. I can hardly wait. I'll probably have to send you a list of questions - I'm interested in what he has to say about secularization -Some would argue that Christianity (as in some ways the most vulnerable of orthodoxies) opens the door to the secular -- leading to a necessary re-definition of words like piety, faith, religion, believer, etc.
The Mac is working great. And the printer is very fast! Sorry for my tardiness in responding ...For the past week, were were all hit by some weird flu virus sweeping the area.
- Tom
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 12:22:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "Erico"
Subject: Re: is the mac working?
To: "tombot"
Tom,
Thought I would jot down some questions as they occur
to me that I would want to explore in reading Rene
Girard:
My first question for Girard is whether his systematic
analysis of myth, and his contrast of that myth with
biblical history, is built upon
rationalist/enlightenment principles that are
themselves subject to criticism. He does point out
the inverse relationship of the two--pagan myth
requires the death or sacrifice of someone for the
community, which brings about peace, and the death of
the victim for the sake of the community is justified.
In contrast, in the Bible, and culminating in
Christianity, the victim's blood cries out from the
ground for justice. God here's this cry. So, there's
the difference.
In the Reader I read, he makes a passing comment about
a questioning of the validity of the idea of insanity.
Perhaps, he suggests, these people are closer to the
truth of the world (that it scapegoats others and
claims innocence), and have a harder time coping with
it than those of us who are 'normal', the normal
people being those who lie to themselves about the
scapegoating mechanism. I'm thinking of Jim, here, a
victim of scapegoating and cruelty much of his life.
In response to your question, Girard would acknowledge
that this Judeo-Christian vision has spread over time.
In fact, he suggests it is responsible for the
relative lack of modern day myths. The problem is
that we continually stumble against the stumbling
block, and return to the scapegoating mechanism, even
as a Christian nation, or as a secular nation.
One wonders how, exactly, one is supposed to confront
evil in the world, if he identifies the scapegoat
mechanism itself with Satan, the father of all lies.
Who is good, and who is evil? And what are the
gradations of evil in the world? I do not know what
his position would be vis-a-vis our current struggle
against Iraq, for instance.
He makes a great beginning to answer this in
contrasting himself from Nietzsche, who propounded
that Life itself demands that we accept even the worst
in people, in the pursuit of Life. He also contrasts
himself from Jung, who proposed that good and evil are
contained in any act by any person. For Jung,
Christianity is equated with all religions and all are
mere myths. Third, he points out the complete
insufficience of any PC opposition to war based on
idealistic pacifism. If I am representing him
correctly, the left wing, pacifistic peace marchers
are perhaps the most blind to the scapegoat mechanism.
And fourth, he affirms the historicity behind the
stories, that there is a referent behind the
reference.
I think the historicity of events must be crucial in
determining the moral position of a possible war with
Iraq, for example.
Just some thoughts. Hoping to clarify them as we go
...
Eric
From: "tombot"
To: eortwerth2000@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: is the mac working?
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:01:02 -0500
Eric:
I tried to send an email from the Mac at home...Did it go through okay? I wanted to say something more about Girard - One of the consequences of his scapegoating hypothesis would be that people would be tempted to adopt the "innocent victim posture" at all costs (idealist pacifist, etc.) -- thus safeguarding them against accusations of being the oppressor -- or else they would be forced to feel "guilty" for existing - for being part of a community. Wouldn't such guilt easily devolve into mere "collective" or "anoynmous guilt" as opposed to genuine personal accountability? How does a person go about "getting on the right road" -- being absolved from actual guilt without slipping into false or extravagant claims of innocence or enlightenment?
- T. S.
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:14:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "Erico"
Subject: Re: is the mac working?
To: "Tombot"
Tom,
I received both your emails, the first one seems to have been sent before it was completely typed in, though.
Read the article you mentioned. Seems to cover all the bases from his reader.
Seems particularly relevant in that we have reached the point where weapons of mass destruction may be produced relatively easily, and any scapegoat process by a threatened nation could lead to Armageddon.
It all is out of control. In trying to crack down on these nations, are we ourselves falling into a scapegoat mentality?
Is Girard's analysis the lever by which to move the world?
E
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